Rebuttal to the outrageous claims made by the leader of Clan Cian Society!

1. As of 2003, The O’Carroll and others given courtesy recognition between 1989 and 1995, are no longer recognized by the Chief Heralds Office as Chief of Name! (See statement from the Chief Herald below)

2. Clan Cian IS NOT an Irish Clan but an Irish Society so confused with their make-up that even their Chief and members can’t figure it out!

3. Clan Cian is not recognized as an Irish Clan by any Irish Agency!

4. Clan Cian members want your money!

5. I can list a dozen Irish Clans that DO NOT charge membership to their clans. If you have the name, you are already a member by blood.

6. Irish Clans are blood and NOT territorial! That is a Scottish tradition! The Scottish refer to Clan Cian as a Scots/Irish Hybrid Clan.

The following 'News Flash' comes from the Clan Cian website:

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~~~ News Flash ~~~

Members of Clan Cian and Friends,                August 27, 2008

There are “False Rumors “Circulating” that Clan Cian has desolved and that the
Council of Irish Chiefs too, has desolved and that I as Chief of Eile am not on the
council and no longer Recognized.

If that was the case all the Chiefs would not be recognized. These people do not know
what they are Rumoring.

These “Propragansts’ are Head-quartered around Portland. And to Clan O’Brien,
Clan Kannady and some Dalcassian Groups.

Members are Cautioned to be on the Alert for these People. Don’t be “Suckered” by
these “Sap Suckers”. (Woodpeckers)

The O’Carroll, Chief of Eile

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~~~ News Flash ~~~

Members of Clan Cian and Friends,                August 28, 2008

False Rumors Continued

Clan O’Brien continues to “Proclaim” they are still the only Irish Clan to Attend the
Games. This will be their First game at Pleasanton. Clan Cian will be there also for
our Twenty-Fifth year.

While they refer to themselves as Clan Dalcassian. In”Truth” by Historians
were referred to as “Dalcassian Clans” – Clan Cian was a “one none divided” Clan.
There were numerous Dalcassian Clans (refer) to O’Harts Irish Pedigrees.

The O’Carroll, Chief of Eile
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As you will see below, Irish Clans are blood, not territorial. Families not of blood may be adopted by the ruling family for protection. Clans are not territorial, that is a Scottish tradition and many of their clans are not blood but a mixture of families in an area.

By definition, Clan Cian is made up of 37 (plus variations) blood families whom descend from Cian in the third century. To claim any families not of this bloodline would constitute a society group and not a Clan.

The Tribe of Cas or Dal gCais could be called Clan Dal gCais and is made up of 120 (plus variations) blood families whom descend from Cormac Cas in the third century. I never refer our Clan O’Brien as Clan Dalcassian. I do explain to visitors that we are one of 120 families that belong to this group by blood.

As Woulfe states ‘Clann means ‘children’, Clan O’Brien would consist of all those of blood descent from Brian Boru, their progenitor. And Clan Cian would consist of all those blood descendants from Cian.

There is only one agency in Ireland (The Clans of Ireland, Inc) that recognizes Irish Clans. The Irish Government does not recognize Irish Clans, the Chief Heralds Office is not in the business of recognizing Irish Clans (email dated 1 July 2003) either. Clan O’Carroll is registered with The Clans of Ireland, Inc as does Clan O’Brien. Clan O’Carroll tried to register Clan Cian with The Clans of Ireland, Inc but was refused by the Clans committee. They stated that Irish Clans are constituted from Irish surnames and that Cian is not an Irish surname and therefore not recognized. The Chief of Clan O’Carroll conceded this fact and retracted their request for recognition (email dated 3 March 2008).

As to the claims that I make about Clan O’Brien being the only Irish Clan at festivals and events in California, the below documents prove that we are. Clan Cian is NOT an Irish Clan, but a society. I read their charter of incorporation dated 1982 years ago and realized that they were a society. Their website stated ‘Welcome to the Clan Cian Society website…’ for years until The O’Brien made comment about that to their Chief in 2003. They immediately removed the word society.

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From the book ‘Irish Pedigrees’, Vol I by John O’Hart

Page 36, III.- IRISH ADFIXES.

Clann ( or Clon) means “children, descendants, race;” as Clan-na-Mile [meel], “the descendants of Milesius;” Clan-na-Gael, “the descendants of Gaodhal,” etc.

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From the book ‘Irish Names & Surnames’, by Rev Patrick Woulfe

Appendix – Clan- Names

Besides personal names, our Irish ancestors had from an early period, and even from pre-historic times, a complete system of fixed clan-names by which each family-group and its subdivisions had its own distinct name. These clan-names are of great importance in tracing the early history of families. Though long obsolete as people-names, they still survive in many instances as baronial and parochial designations, in the same way as Norfolk and Suffolk, - became the names of two English counties. They were generally formed by prefixing certain words to the genitive case of the names of distinguished ancestors, sometimes gods and goddesses, or by family names of a later period. Some, however, and probably the very oldest, appear to be plural names, like the names of the Celtic tribes of Gaul in Caesar’s time; while others are formed by prefixing certain words to place-names.

Of words prefixed to the names of ancestors to form clan-names, we have the following:
….
Dal, tribe, progeny, as Dál gCais, race of Cas, whence “Dalcassian”;
….
Of terminations used to form clan-names, we have the following:
….
-acht, as in Cianacht, race of Cian, Eoghanacht, race of Eoghan;
….
Only such clan-names as are mentioned in the preceding notes are here explained, and they are taken in their original sense of people-names:

CIANACHT (Keenaght), race of Cian, son of Oilioll Olum, King of Munster in the 3 rd century; the families of Ó Cearbaill, Ó Meaċain and Ó Ríoġbaroáin of Eile, Ó Caťaraiġ of Breagh, Ó Conċobain of Glen Geimhin, and Ó heaġra and Ó Gaóra of Luighne in Connacht.
….
DAL gCAIS, race of Cas, the sixth in descent from Cormac Cas, son of Oilioll Olum, King of Munster in the 3 rd century; the name of the great clan of Thomond, or North Munster, which embraced several distinguished families and of which the O’Briens were the chiefs.
….
(NOTE: I will point out here that there are only 37 families recognized as descending from Cian and 120 recognized families descending from Cormac Cas, the Dal gCais.)

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From the book ‘A Social History of Ancient Ireland’, by P.W. Joyce

Page 166, 6. Groups of Society.

The people were formed into groups of various sizes, from the family upwards. The Family was the group consisting of the living parents and all their descendants. The Sept was a larger group, descended from common parents long since dead; but this is an imported word, brought into use in comparatively late times. All the members of a sept were nearly related, and in later times bore the same surname. The Clan or house was still larger. Clann means ‘children,’ and the word therefore implied descent from one ancestor.

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Reference comments made on August 27, 2008 on the Clan Cian website

In regards to the rumor that Clan Cian has dissolved – I have never stated that. I have, however, stated that once visitors realize that all Clan Cian wants is your money, they will slowly dissolve themselves. If they change their ways and advertise themselves as an Irish Society and claim no one, than anyone can join their society. Since they are claiming over 400 families, including some Scottish families as belonging to Cian, I will continue to inform visitors of their goals, and that is to get your money.

As to the claim that the Standing Council of Irish Chiefs and Chieftains has been dissolved – I have no information about that. I do know that they are at a stalemate and have no support from the Chief Heralds Office nor the Irish Government.

As to the Chief of Name recognition; Here is what was posted on the Chief Heralds website after the McCarthy Mor fraud was uncovered:

What was a Chief of the Name?

A Chief of the Name was a person recognized by the Chief Herald as the most senior known male descendant of the last inaugurated or de facto chief of that name in power in Gaelic Ireland at or before the end of the sixteenth century. The system of courtesy recognition as chief of the name has now been terminated. For a statement by the Chief Herald explaining this, see below:

Termination of the system of Courtesy Recognition as Chief of the Name

Arising from questions which had arisen in relation to the practice of granting courtesy recognition as chief of the name, and specifically in relation to the recognition of certain chiefs during the years 1989 to 1995, the Chief Herald of Ireland requested the Office of the Attorney General to provide legal advice on the operation of the system generally and on particular issues which had arisen in an individual case. He has since been advised by the Office of the Attorney General that:

There is not, and never was, any statutory or legal basis for the practice of granting courtesy recognition as chief of the name;

In the absence of an appropriate basis in law, the practice of granting courtesy recognition should not be continued by the Genealogical Office; and

Even if a sound legal basis for the system existed, it would not be permissible to review and reverse decisions made by a previous Chief Herald except in particular situations, for example, where decisions were based on statements or documents which were clearly false or misleading in material respects.

In these circumstances, the Chief Herald has decided, in agreement with the Council of Trustees of the National Library and the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, that the practice of granting courtesy recognition as chief of the name should be discontinued and that no further action should be taken in relation to the applications on hands for courtesy recognition, or in relation to the review which had been initiated of certain cases in which recognition was granted in the years 1989-95.

Courtesy recognition was intended to amount to nothing more than the recognition of a genealogical fact (ie that the individual concerned was the most senior known male descendant of the last inaugurated or de facto chief of a particular name in power around the end of the sixteenth century) and was not intended to confer, confirm or imply any rights in law, or any special status or title of nobility or of honour. It is recognized, however, that the decision to end the courtesy recognition system may create difficulties for those who, in common with generations of their ancestors have used, and have been known over the years by, particular chiefly designations which were a matter of public record and acceptance long before any intervention or recognition by the Genealogical Office. It would be regrettable if such difficulties were to arise, particularly in those cases where recognition by the Genealogical Office dates from the 1940s and where entitlement to recognition has never been seriously questioned. It is not intended that the ending of the courtesy recognition system should be seen to reflect in any way on these or, indeed, on any other individuals. Ont eh other hand, it would be inappropriate if a decision made by the Genealogical Office in the past in relation to courtesy recognition were henceforth to be relied on as the sole basis for use of any particular chiefly designation.

As stated above, all those Chiefs of the Name that received courtesy recognition between 1989-1995 have been suspended. This list of at least six individuals include The O’Carroll as well as The O’Long, The MacCarthy Mor and others. Therefore The O’Carroll, and others recognized between 1989-1995 are no longer recognized as Chief of the Name by the Chief Heralds Office.

‘Since The O’Brien Chief line and many others were recognized long before 1989, their Chief of Name recognition is still in effect. Only those recognized between 1989 and 1995 have been suspended.’